Sunday, August 27, 2006

Gettin' busy early on

Alisha: We wanted to chat about early intimacy, right?
Deirdre: Yes. I think it's something that can make or break a burgeoning relationship. Mostly break it.
Alisha: What's your definition of early intimacy? Even Bill Clinton had his own ideas.
Deirdre: Anything physical. We're talking anything from kisses to full-on sex. And unlike Bill Clinton, I say oral sex is sex.
Alisha: Yes, it is. And early intimacy is tricky. If there's a spark and both understand the repercussions, then go for it.
Deirdre: This is where we disagree. I advocate no kissing, even, on the first date. If we're talking about you're out and you see someone you want and they want you and you decide to have a one-night stand, well, that's your business and none of mine. But if two people are out on a date, exploring whether they might want to have a second, or a third, then I think passionate make-outs or sex at the beginning is a bad idea.
Alisha: Have you ever gone shopping for a new car? Did you take it for a test drive?
Deirdre: Girl, we're talking about people, not machinery! You're going to have to try harder than that.
Alisha: A test drive is a test drive; you're not signing your name to the contract! As long as it's two consenting adults, and there's some communication before you take the plunge, then what's the problem? Early intimacy isn’t always the death knell for a future relationship.
Deirdre: OK, you mentioned communication. How would that conversation go? Assuming you've just met.
Alisha: Let's set the scene: A man and a woman meet for dinner. For dessert, they take a moon-lit walk around the city lake, holding hands. There's a strong physical attraction. Man takes woman home and their eyes linger for ages on the front porch as they kiss ...
Alisha: Then, woman asks man (or vice versa): "Before we proceed, how do you think tonight went and do you see us meeting for future dates? And, do we understand what we're about to do next?"
Deirdre: Talk about throwing cold water on a hot moment! Do you know anyone that has actually worked for?
Alisha: Sure. Me.
Alisha: We’re not talking about Gettysburg Address-type communication. Ensuring you're on the same page would be helpful.
Deirdre: I agree. But how many people take that mature step? How many people have you known where the woman is like, "well, if I want him to like me, I'd better sleep with him ..." And the guy is like, "SCORE!" and not even thinking about tomorrow?
Alisha: How many people are divorced? Is it OK to answer a question with a question?
Deirdre: What does the divorce rate have to do with this?
Alisha: Life is about risks and rewards. If you're going to say you cannot kiss or involve further intimacy on every first date, you could be missing out.
Deirdre: On what?
Alisha: Excitement, exploration and emotional bonds.
Deirdre: Because you save physical interaction until the next time you meet? I doubt that.
Alisha: How is not kissing on the first date going to forever alter the next date? It's not.
Deirdre: I think it could. You're just getting to know each other. Adding physical stuff at the beginning could muddle things. Besides, people have to learn each other's bodies and what they like. A horrible first kiss could turn someone off, and they could miss out on a good thing by writing the other person off too soon.
Alisha: Hello! Your kissing ability doesn't change from week to week. If the first kiss is horrible, then you won’t be coming back for seconds. I'd rather know my partner is a horrible kisser from the get-go than get five dates in (and wasted money and energy) and be turned off by their lack of ability.
Deirdre: You could be nervous, or, you could be doing it for the wrong reason (because you feel like you have to, not because you want to). All of that affects lip ability and tongue control. (smile)
Deirdre: And if you're enjoying each other's company, it's not a waste of money or energy.
Alisha: Thanks for bringing the conversation back to: "what does this have to do with the divorce rate?" ... Too many people settle for a bad kisser or a bad lover because they enjoy spending time with their partner. However, a few years pass and one partner has an urge to be with a great kisser or a great lover, and that's where infidelity and unhappiness might rear its ugly head.
Deirdre: Oh, I agree with everything you just said! I just feel like people rush the physical side of things when they should be getting to know each other's minds, not bodies. And there's something to be said for the sexiness of anticipation.
Alisha: I'll just adopt the motto: Must take for a test drive.
Deirdre: And I'll say drive slowly until you know where you're going.
Now, comments are welcome, readers, but please keep them clean!


Anonymous said...

I'm a very touch-huggy kind of person, if someone didn't want to kiss on the first date, if they weren't dying to plant one on me, then there's no passion, in the way I understand it, and no reason to continue dating. A relationship has to go beyond friendship, it's sexual.

Anonymous said...

I have to go with Alisha. Just let it happen. It's silly to have a no-kissing rule, or even (gasp!) a no-sex rule. That doesn't mean it has to happen, but if it feels right, it would be crazy to have RULE against it. Kissing is not that big a deal! It can be the right thing at the right moment. Why call a halt to chemistry!!!

Anonymous said...

This is exactly the problem with the status of marraige and family in todays world. People have absolutely no respect for how relationships were designed and boundaries simply do not exist. If you're not going around sleeping with numerous people or kissing whoever you think is cute, then when you finally do find the person with whom your soul connects with, and you make a LIFELONG committment of MARRIAGE, then you don't have any previous sexual expereiences to compare to. All you know is what you have, and that is perfect! People need to learn how to interact with one another emotionally, spiritually and intellectually the right way from the beginning instead of just relyling on divorce to "fix-it" after the passion of the physical connection that has been going on from day one eventually fades away.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe these girls are so loose with their morals! Wow! No wonder my son says that there are no decent young females out there!

Anonymous said...

Yeah, there are so few clean, moral girls anymore. I read an article a couple of years ago that there are twice as many high school male virgins than female virgins. Is this what feminism is all about--promiscuity???

Anonymous said...

every situation is different. my husband and i had known each other since we were in middle school and were family friends. when we got together in our mid-twenties, we both knew that we could never have a one night stand or fling with each other because of our history. so when we kissed on the first date and made love on our 3rd we knew it wasn't just "loose morals" as some put it, it was REAL passion and love. now married and six years later, i have no regrets about our early intimacy.

Anonymous said...

It's easy to see why Deirdre is 36 and never married.

Deirdre: there is a saying a kiss is just a kiss... don't be such a prude!

John said...

Oh, good lord Alisha!

and the same goes for all of you who think that relationships are all about sex!

No wonder the divorce rate is 51%. You people don't even know HOW to have a relationship, let alone WHEN.

Clue #1. A first date is NOT a "relationship"... not even a second date, or maybe a third. Relationships happen when you start to care about what the other person needs at least as much, if not more than what you want! Hello!

Anything else is using people.

Oh, and Alisha... people don't get divorced because the settled for a bad kisser or bad lover for someone they enjoyed being with. They get divorced because they get selfish. Somehow I got a feeling that Christy Brinkley and Nicole Kidman are neither bad kissers or bad lovers! They just had the misfortune to marry self-centered jerks. How many times has Halle Berry been married?

Grow up child, I've been married (to the same woman) almost longer than you've been alive. My parents were married 60 years.

You are married, let me ask you something. What if your husband had an accident which left him unable to have sex. Would you divorce him? Have an affair to meet your needs, no matter what it might do to him if he found out?

Your column leaves the impression that you probably would.

If that's the case, then you should never have married.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with anonymous from 8/28 at 4:08 can you say Alisha and Deirdre are loose with their morals when Deirdre is clearly saying early intimacy is a bad thing? Anyway, I don't think sex on the first date is a good idea, because it is best in the context of a loving relationship, and how can you already be in a loving relationship on the first date? Of course, people having sex on a first date aren't motivated by love, only lust. If you go into it knowing that it's just sex, that's one thing. But how many people have given their bodies to somebody, hoping it would lead to something meaningful, and the other person is just seeing it as another conquest? I don't think there's anything wrong with kissing on a first date, however. You don't have to kiss if you don't want to, but if you both are feeling the attraction, go for it! It can't hurt and can feel really good. So I guess you can say I think some affection is OK for the first date, but not sex. (And BTW, I don't consider oral sex to be sex.)

Mike said...

I'm still trying to get used to the idea that the Observer would lend credence to a blog that is as shallow as this one is.

Perhaps "observing" has nothing to do with reporting "news?"

Anonymous said...

Yeah, that's what I look for in a girl - one that's been "test driven" all over town. Classy.

Anonymous said...

I am not into having sex on the first date. Plain and simple. I feel that spending a great amount of time getting to know that person as a friend is eqaully before moving toward a lover.I have to LIKE that person very much to trust him enough to have sex with him because my body is very special to me.

Anonymous said...

Different Strokes for Different Folks PEOPLE!!! Why is that such a hard concept for people to grasp. There are plenty of people who can do the bump and grind on day one and last for a lifetime, while there are folks who need more time to figure things out before putting their physical emotions into the mix. Just because you can't doesn't mean I shouldn't.

Physical attraction is important for many people. That doesn't mean they will leave their spouse if something bad such as an accident happens, it just means that they enjoy and thrive on the physical connection as well as the spiritual and emotional connection.
I also find it funny how people criticize women for saying they want to have a night of uncommitted sex but leave men alone as though its an understood assumption for them. Where's the class in that?

Anonymous said...

I found this article to be outrageous! What has happened to morality and personal responsibility, not to mention personal integrity? What has happened to taking time to get to know a person and develop a friendship?

Relationships/friendships are not formed in hours or days. Anything worthwhile takes time and that especially applies to relationships. Both you girls sound ridiculous with your car analogy -- and by the sounds of this article, have no idea how to develop a relationship.

The era of "if it feels good, do it" should have gone away 22 years ago when AIDS came on the scene.

If you were to visit any high school or college campus, it would not take very long to find teens and young adults who have experienced first hand the heartache that results from the type of behaviours that you appear to be advocating. It is incredible that this article even made it to publication.

Rachel said...

anonymous at 6:18 pm 8-28-06.
If you don't consider oral Then what in the world do you consider it to be? How much more intimate is it possible to be?

Anonymous said...

I actually have a policy to ALWAYS have sex on a first date. If it doesn't happen, then the relationship wasn't meant to be.

Anonymous said...

You better give him a taste or he won't come back for more. A woman wants one man to meet her every need. A man wants a woman to meet his one need.

Anonymous said...

In response to Rachel, I consider oral sex to be a sexual activity, usually foreplay to what I call "real sex" (intercourse). If someone says he/she performed or received oral sex and that's all that happened, I don't consider that person as having had "sex." I'd be mad if my boyfriend did that with another woman, of course, but I still say oral sex is not sex.

Anonymous said...

The 4:02 poster almost got it right. The saying goes "A woman wants one man to meet her every need. A man wants every woman to meet his one need." It's your typical male-bashing comment made by (some) women. If a man made the same female-bashing type comment he'd be strung up and labeled sexist. Watch the sitcoms...any one about a couple is 90% the woman telling the man how stupid he is and getting laughs at his expense. But the saying does have some truth. Most women do need a man to fulfill their ever-growing list of needs. In reality, no man can ever meet ALL their needs - because if you did she'd only come up with more! So as to drive the man crazy in the process. This is what women do. And women better thank their lucky stars that men have such a strong desire to fill their "one" need (obviously sex)...because if it weren't for that men would never be willing to put up with all of women's crap! Truth!!!!!

Joshua said...

lets go back to this oral sex thing not being sex. Okay, so you have your face in someone's crotch,performing a very intimate
act,and that's not sex. Well honey, call it what you want but I do believe that would be sex.

Anonymous said...

This is the most ridiculous newspaper column I've ever read. What is the Observer thinking? Why are they permitting editorial staff to spend valuable time writing such tripe? This is not edgy pop-culture commentary. It's two women having a crude conversation for the world to read.

Anonymous said...

Oral sex is not sex huh? And I suppose that chocolate cake is not cake. And bottled water is not water. And braided hair is not hair.

LovesAlicia'sMom said...

With all due respect to both of you lovely young ladies, it's been my experience that circumstances play a much larger role in deciding on how far (if anywhere) a first date, or second or third, will go. Also, how well you've gotten to know each other before the date is a huge factor. I have met ladies, who I'd gotten to know very well, where the date had to wait for sex, and I've had other situations where I thought for sure the date would end in the bedroom, but it just ended; no bedroom action happened...indeed, no chemistry at all in person.